Talk: Pidge (Legendary Defender)

Gender

isn't pidge a girl? they literally called themself a girl/called themself NOT a man? i'm not against the idea that pidge's coming out was... a coming out thing. That's almost certainly what the creators were going for. But it's kinda weird to call Pidge a guy when they explicitly say they aren't, and that's sort of what pidge's coming out was about? That they were actually a girl, not a guy?   Luudicrous (talk) 00:28, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Pidge is a girl.  While she had "come out" to the rest of her teammates as a girl she never told them that she considered herself a boy.  The others continue to call her Pidge likely as that's what they know her by outside of Shiro and likely Hunk.  Also remember that the entire reason for the Pidge persona is because she was no longer allowed on the Galaxy Garrison base and needed to be there to get the info she wanted to find her father and brother.  The scenario is more her being Mulan than changing her gender identification because she does not consider herself to be a boy. I would revert the page back to to what it was yesterday before the major edits and at least wait until the show states otherwise.Windrave (talk) 02:38, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, i'm gonna hold you there. It's not strictly a Mulan scenario because she could have disguised herself as a girl. One theory/headcanon is that she's actually a trans girl and due to transphobia was required to register as her AGAB. I'm not gonna put that in though, outside of a mentioning it as an interpretation, cuz I don't want to butt up against the trans man pidge headcanoners and it's not strictly confirmed. Luudicrous (talk) 02:45, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

The meta reason though why she disguised herself as a guy is that in the original Pidge was a boy so that was the showrunners honoring that before going with her gender change for the show and why.  Headcanons really should not be considered for the wiki proper as they are not a neutral opinion for those coming for in-show canon information. Until the show itself or Pidge/Katie says otherwise her wiki page should be what it was before the major changes with the Pidge persona an alias.Windrave (talk) 02:59, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

From what I got watching the show Katie is her true name. she was born and raised a girl, and only resorted to dressing up as a boy so she could get onto the military training facility which she had been banned from. The whole point behind forming voltron is that the team needs to be open and honest with their team mates to achieve perfect harmony. Katie continuing hiding her true identity from her team could become a hindrance to them in the future. they know shes female, and they continue to refer to her as such after she tells them she is a girl. Why they keep using the name Pidge though I don't know, probably for the sake of the old fans of the show.
Ixbran (talk) 04:50, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

• Pidge is just a nickname at this point, its not really a male or female specific name so I guess they saw no reason to stop calling her Pidge. ralok (talk) 02:34, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Unless the creators address the issue, we can assume here on the wiki that Pidge's sex and gender are both female. Remember, regardless of our interpretations as fans, for something like this we have to go by what has been stated on the show or by the creators. 

And the show was quite explicit at revealing her as female. Any mention of her being transgender has no place in the article. -- WarBlade (talk) 05:30, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Pidge is confirmed to be a girl by Lauren Montgomery in an interview with the Washington post found here. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2016/06/23/how-netflix-brought-new-life-to-voltron-the-beloved-80s-cartoon/ TARDIS7& (talk) 23:35, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Pidge literally says "I am a girl" it doesnt matter what her physical sex is at that point, anyone insisting she is a boy is denying her the right to to identify as such. And anyone who says she is transgendered is doing so completely baselessly as there is no evidence towards that point. ralok (talk) 01:50, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

"Grammatical" gender bias

IF it is grammatically okay to refer to Shiro as his or him, Keith as his or him, Lance as his or him, or Hunk as his or him. Then it is grammatically okay to say Pidge in her or she.

Unless you can actually prove their or they is correct, then it has to be applied to the boys as well. --Revan's Exile (talk) 21:05, June 24, 2016 (UTC)

Gender, Pronouns, and Waiting

Hello! Actual Trans Person here, reporting in. There are a few things I'd like to add that I actually wouldn't have said unprompted, but apparently this thread is still going, so hi! Nice to meet you all. Hopefully I can help clear things up.

Canon Material:

• After "Taking Flight", when Pidge tells everyone "I'm a girl," no one uses "he" for the Green Paladin again.
  • Neither does anyone call Pidge "she" or "they"

I'm not making this up, I promise it's true! My first time watching, I listened intently for pronouns, and I've watched each of the episodes multiple times afterwards to write the transcripts. None of our heroes use any pronouns at all when talking about Pidge!

• The official V:LD website has no pronouns for Pidge, either.
  • Admittedly, this is probably to avoid spoilers, but it's very obvious once you realize every other hero has pronouns in their descriptions.
• Lauren Montgomery referred to Pidge as "she"

Multiple fans don't trust taking what the creators say at face value, which is entirely understandable because creators change their minds, so this is only in the "Canon" category because it fits most easily here. Until a character in the show calls Pidge "she", I'm reluctant to claim this one as the only pronoun allowed.

Speculation:

There are two main headcanons for Pidge's backstory, from what I've gathered:

1. The second Holt child (daughter) is born into the family. This child is a girl and is given the birth name "Katie Holt". Katie grows up in a loving family. Eventually, her brother and father are lost on a mission to Kerberos. She hacks into the Garrison Alliance but is caught, exposed as Katie Holt and preventing her from enrolling as herself. She cuts her hair, chooses a new name and identity, and successfully enlists as "Pidge Gunderson", boy cadet.
2. The second Holt child (son) is born into the family. This child realizes that "boy" is definitely wrong and asks to be called "Katie" instead of the birth name. Katie grows up in a loving family. Eventually, her brother and father are lost on a mission to Kerberos. She hacks into the Garrison Alliance but is caught, exposed as Katie Holt and preventing her from enrolling as herself. She cuts her painstakingly grown hair, chooses a new name and identity, and successfully enlists as "Pidge Gunderson", boy cadet.

Either one is entirely plausable, and we don't have enough canon material to prove either one correct or incorrect.

Additionally:

"Gender" is not the same as "pronoun". It isn't. Pronouns are just words used to refer to someone by something other than their name. It's entirely possible to be a boy and like the pronouns "they" or "he". It's entirely possible to not have a gender and want to be called "she" and "ze". And it's possible to be a girl and not care what pronouns you're given. It is, yes, very rare to be a girl and want to be called "he", but that has more to do with our society as it currently is than anything else. It happens. (Personally, I highly doubt the creators will be so open and fluid in season 2, but it would be nice.)

What All of This Means for the Fans: 

• Right now, with the media we have available, Pidge doesn't have canon pronouns! It's entirely okay to call Pidge anything you want. Yes, even "he".
• Pidge is still a girl, though. Unless she turns out to be genderfluid or something similar, which again, would be nice but is unlikely, then maybe try not to call Pidge a boy of any kind.

What This Means for the Editors (Us):

• It is not canon (yet) that Pidge was born "Katie Holt", only that she definitely was known as that before choosing "Pidge Gunderson" as a name.
• I'd suggest using "she/her" for now, only because it's easy and it's what the creator has used so far.
• Remember to be nice to each other about this, and be patient with the people who create an account solely to change Pidge's page.

That's all! Hope this helps. BlitzLowin (talk) 17:47, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

That first one is not a headcanon... that is what happened, she Enrolled as a boy to hide her identity. There is not a single indication of the second thing which is entirely headcanon and has no validity as headcanons have no purpose. You are splitting hairs here with gender and pronoun... and you are only doing so because you want to cram your headcanon into this... and no, there is no reason to be patient with people who are being sexist and denying Pidge her gender identity as female based on stereotypes... it is an apalling and regressive behaviour. ralok (talk) 19:27, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

Hi, ralok! I'm going to ignore the degrading, belittling way you spoke to me, except to point it out and ask you to stop. I'd actually love to talk more about Pidge with you in a civilized manner, if you can bring yourself to act in such a way, but I'd rather talk somewhere more private than here, so this page doesn't get clogged up. That is actually how pronouns and gender work, though. Like, that's not a debate, or me splitting hairs, that's fact, that's how it works in life. BlitzLowin (talk) 01:20, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

The creator of the show says she's female, then that's it. Anything else is just nonsense fanfiction. She will be referred to as a girl and as "she". Dream Focus 19:53, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yes! That's what I'm saying. Pidge is a girl, and we use she/her for her. Glad we agree, Dream :)! BlitzLowin (talk) 01:20, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

In season 2 Coran once said, :good luck gentlemen, and gentlelady." Allura was not in the room, so he was definately referring to Pidge. Rex-da-best (talk) 05:04, February 11, 2017 (UTC)Rex-da-bestRex-da-best (talk) 05:04, February 11, 2017 (UTC)

• Hey, I'm not sure if this is one of the official comics and I'm not sure which issue this may be but I've found something suggesting that Pidge has been canonically referred to as they/them in an official comic, can someone confirm? Here is the image from the comic, I'm hoping that someone who owns the official comics could look through and confirm that this is legit (and also not being taken out of context)? Thank you! http://66.media.tumblr.com/0befa0af9e50f50c22644a5606376b3f/tumblr_oaafcuTXv71rvyl90o1_1280.jpg Everyusernamethatisapunofmynameistaken (talk) 07:50, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

I have the comic. That alien - Kythylian Mu - was referring to all the Paladins, as Coran had just introduced them. Can't blame the ten-foot armadillo centaur for thinking humans are scrawny. :P Byrnstar (talk) 12:02, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

Age

It has been confirmed by the creators that Pidge is 14 

Pidging (talk) 21:33, July 22, 2016 (UTC)Pidging

This is not canon . Pidge does not have a confirmed age.

Lullamoon (talk) 05:15, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

This has been addressed in this thread. Please read the Forum Policies/FAQ and be respectful and open-minded before attempting to start edit wars. Thank you. BlitzLowin (talk) 21:00, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

Pidge has been confirmed to be late teens like his classmates by the Let's Voltron podcast, from actual official, formal interviews. [Source]

That video by heyyerza does not give out specific ages & just repeats what we already knew; they're ALL late teens, minus Shiro, who is slightly older. Breakdancingpidge (talk) 23:45, October 25, 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to jump in here just to add some Two Cents. The tweet is vague enough with its wording to essentially be reiterating information already stated in The Age Video. "Mostly late teens and slightly older". "Mostly": This could be referring to Pidge as an exception to "late teens and slightly older". To my eyes, there is nothing in that tweet that contradicts The Age Video. The podcast is not made up of any official VLD staff, to my knowledge, they just have been proven to speak with them. (In Podcasts, the hosts have mistaken one character for another and asked about their own personal theories.) The podcast hosts may have insider info, they may not. Any insider info they have is stuff they probably have to keep silent about.

That said, the only officially published information on Paladin ages is the summary "five unsuspecting teenagers". This is listed on the DreamWorks website as well as on the new comic issues being released iirc. (I think it was on the inside of a cover page or sth in Issue #1. I remember a photo; I do not own any of the comics and could be misremembering.) The Age Video is not officially published info, rather on-the-spot answers to questions answered the day previously. A fan asked them about ages at the panel and tweeted the replies. People bothered them for proof, so the fan returned the next day to record the staff answering the questions and had a friend upload the video. It's not uncommon in other fandoms for a creator like a mangaka to answer questions about characters on-the-spot at events and then contradict those answers in published manga chapters later.

tl;dr: Nothing new has come about, but people may want to consider how "canon" the video is vs. the officially published information. Ruriair (talk) 00:44, October 26, 2016 (UTC)

The twitter page linked above is no longer available and was it really canon in the first place? I say there is no evidence that Pidge is specifically 14. Smokiy (talk) 21:09, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

Pidge has a suggested age number but no canonized age number like the rest. Since the other Paladin pages are treating "five teens = canon" vs. "suggested numbers outside of canon media and episodes/comics = not canon since the ranges given contradict actual canon in at least one instance and other numbers given can be contradicted by future canon", it'd make sense to apply the same logic for Pidge to remain objective. The only thing of note for her lately is Bex has also described Pidge as being 14, and the narrative treats her as younger than the other Paladins (by literally calling her a "child", "little girl", etc.). Ruriair (talk) 22:36, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

imo since there is no canonicaly specified age for Pidge, then there should be no age on their page Smokiy (talk) 00:10, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

protection level

The protection level I have changed so only administrators can edit this page. The same idiot keeps coming back with new accounts, and can still edit despite me setting it so no new or unregistered users can. Apparently if they had any accounts on another wikia for a time, then they don't count as a new user, so they can thus easily get around that protection. This includes accounts made with just a few token edits on a single day, and not used again, except to harass people on other wikias. So I have no choice but to change this article so only administrators can edit it. The sheer number of accounts of this same person I had to block these past few days, is just ridiculous. Dream Focus 15:22, July 28, 2016 (UTC)

Yet more info re: Pidge is a girl.

Newsarama Interviewer: After seeing the trailer, I remember telling my friends that I was 99% sure Pidge was going to be a girl, and I was right! What led to the creation of Katie Holt, who uses the alias Pidge Gunderson in the series?

Lauren Montgomery: It was one of the very first decisions we made because we wanted more female representation in the core characters. And it turns out (as no surprise really) that we were right to do so because regardless of the original show having an all male cast of Voltron pilots for the first few episodes, the concern about lack of female representation was the most prevalent question leading up to the premiere of the show. We chose to hold that information back and let the audience expierence the Pidge reveal within the body of the show because we really believed in it and the depth it added to the character. But ultimately we are a team that has worked on such shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, which are both shows that have had great female characters. We never had any intentions of leaving out female representation from this show.

- found yet another interview. Debate's over, folks. Stop beating a dead horse and vandalizing the wiki. Byrnstar (talk) 23:13, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

List Proposal

Since the only people who can edit Pidge's page are admins, and pretty much all of the admins are busy people with busy lives, it's not being updated at the same rate as the other pages are. There are group pictures on everyone else's pages except Pidge's, some of the text isn't linked and should be, and the notes/references need to be fixed. Why don't we start one bulleted list of edits for it here? Like, write down the picture's file name + a caption and where it should go chronologically, say what needs a link. That way, whichever admin has a free moment can look at the list, delete or cross off the stuff they completed, and not worry about anything else.

Good idea? Bad idea? What do y'all think? I'm asking both active users (who'll be doing the grunt work) and any active admins (who'll be inputting the final information, so we'd need at least one admin who thinks isn't a dumb idea) BlitzLowin (talk) 03:54, September 5, 2016 (UTC)

I'd be happy to go back and grind through getting the pics up as well as putting them in chrono order, a lot of them are mine anyways so it'd be easy to just comb through my contributions list for ones with Pidge in them. Didn't want to push the admins however until I got through screencapping the last two eps and had all of the first season available for a batch upload. Wolfschuller69? Dreamfocus? Would you want us to come up with a to-do list? Byrnstar (talk) 04:42, September 5, 2016 (UTC)

If the Admins think it's a good idea and if you guys need to help, I'm down with helping out with the list and adding which links need to be added and fixed. OwlOfTheNight (talk) 07:28, September 5, 2016 (UTC)

• The block has been there over a month do to constant vandalism. I have just removed it so edit away. If you see any new editors doing anything, please check the history and revert any vandalism. Dream Focus 12:18, September 5, 2016 (UTC)
  • Thanks, DF! ...Byrnstar, is it okay if I leave organizing the pictures up to you? I've been wanting to add them for weeks, but now that we can edit it I'm realizing there are just. So many new pictures. I still want to help add some, so I will! But I think you know the order they go in better than anyone. BlitzLowin (talk) 17:49, September 5, 2016 (UTC)
  • Certainly, go right ahead and add in whatever pics you find in the existing archive! The more eyes on this the better it is for catching stuff, so every one feel free to add in. I'm just about done screening the last eps, when I upload those images I'll go to the coding side and reorg everything at once. :) Byrnstar (talk) 00:47, September 6, 2016 (UTC)

Name

There are two problems I have with her name... Why did she choose it and why are they still calling her by it?  The second one I can kinda understand if she prefers to be called it but what kind of name is "Pidge"?  It sounds like a lazy name for a pet Pigeon.  And it sounds even more made up next to "Gunderson".  If she wanted to blend in at the acadamy she could have picked a more realistic and less "odd one out" sounding name.  I know this is supposed to be the future but at what point did "Pidge" become a name, let alone on accepted by society?  "Hunk" I can kinda understand, it can either be an ironic nickname or a wish upon the child by the parents that went wrong.  But she never says "can you stop calling me it now" or "you can keep calling me it" and it's not like Shiroe can't tell the rest of the crew what her real name is... 

TheBlackDemon1996 (talk) 23:21, January 18, 2017 (UTC)

Whoever created the series chose that name, or whoever did the American version did. Not a real person after all. If it was, perhaps she didn't have time to think it through, and it sounded manly to her. Pidge Gunderston. Rather manly surely. Dream Focus 01:41, January 19, 2017 (UTC)

Should the name on this page really be Pidge Gunderson? We should at least remove the Gunderson part, seeing as Pidge is just a nickname and Gunderson was just part of her alias to get into the school. She literally calls herself and Matt the Holts. --Tim6455454 (talk) 00:59, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

It's kind of a weird thing. Shiro falls under this too. And it's really choosing whether we should go with their actual names (Takashi Shirogane and Katie Holt) or their more recognizable nicknames (Shiro and Pidge). On one hand, it's easier for people who browse this site to go with the nicknames they're often called. On the other hand, it's more "proper" to go with their officially release full names. --Thayora (talk) 01:55, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

The name Gunderson should be remove at least, it can be on the page but not in the actual name section. Gunderson was only a name she used undercover and has not used it since. She called herself and Matt the Holts. Rob58943854 (talk) 05:49, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

Name Inspiration or Coincidence?

I was just doing some random browsing over on Wikipedia about Amelia Earheart, and something that really stood out and caused me to wonder was her younger sister.  Amelia's sister was nicknamed Pidge, and seeing as how she is someone who also lost an explorer sibling under "mysterious conditions", is it possible that Voltron's Pidge was named as a very obscure nod to the Earheart mystery?

Or is this just a freaky coincidence?

Scarletdown (talk) 21:29, April 18, 2017 (UTC)